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http://www.belsona-strategic.com/lassemarhaug.html In an underground music world that is no less safe from petty rivalries, misguided attempts at 'serious' discourse and half-realized concepts than the consumerist mainstream, it's nice to stumble across an optimistic and personable soul like Lasse Marhaug. The Norwegian noisenik's onslaught of recordings, numbering somewhere in the triple digits, happily bypasses the conventions of much intense music- there's no explicit desire to shock, no contrived attempts at being a political firebrand. While Lasse is surely aware of these approaches, he largely sticks to what he knows best: bracing, rushing streams of colorful noise which, like much of nature itself, seem indifferent to human existence- yet can be quite beneficial to it, if one allows that to be the case. Lasse's growing list of collaborators reads like a who's-who of participants in the battle to liberate sound from its fucntion as a disposable leisure-time product; to re-establish raw sound (the louder the better) as something integral to life and consciousness. In an attempt to get some material for an ever-expanding book on this culture, I phoned Lasse in Oslo a little while ago. After some preliminary chatting about fun things such as Chicago's Metal Haven record shop and some of our mutual friends, I prodded Mr. Marhaug for some more specifics on his musical development and his living envirnoment. Read on for the results.... (questions= Thomas Transparent) Can you talk a little about your interest in Norwegian black metal? I’ve noticed many of your graphic designs have used BM imagery, and your collaborative release with Kevin Drumm had a name very similar to an Immortal song. Funny you should ask now, actually, because last night I met this guy Faust, who used to be in Emperor- he was jailed for 10 years for killing a guy. The last time I met him was in 1992 when things started to get really heavy, and I haven’t been in touch with him since. But he was at this show last night, and he definitely doesn’t seem threatening- he has short hair now and plays in a punk band. Seems like that whole black metal scene has sort of opened up; it’s not as controversial now and they’re not burning churches anymore. Wasn’t Maja Ratkje doing some black metal-styled collaborations as well? Yeah, she played with [Kjetil] Manheim, who was the original drummer of Mayhem- they needed a drummer for Fe-Mail, her project, and called me asking “do you know any good metal drummers,” and I suggested him. He’s a nice guy- not really a metalhead anymore, although that’s definitely the style of playing that he knows. I wasn’t able to see that show they did together, but people told me it was very good. I’m performing with him in Newcastle, in April, as a trio with Russell Haswell. Has the backlash from the black metal-related arsons and murders of the 90s also affected other forms of underground music and art? Do you think people have been more skeptical of extreme artwork since that time, or has the panic finally ended? No, not really- not that I can think of. The thing with black metal was that there was a big media hype, and a couple key members of that scene really bought the hype and started believing it themselves, which was a very bad thing. I think that their belief of the media hype resulted in all the bad things- the murders, church burnings etc. I enjoy the music, but it’s a bit strange, because people I knew died and went to jail- for me, you know, it was like kids, uh, how do you say- things got out of hand. It’s a sad story, and I find the way that it’s portrayed now is false. There weren’t that many black metal shows, and they didn’t make a lot of records either. I got tired of black metal because I thought it became such a negative thing. I was friends with all those people when they were doing death metal- I liked death metal because it shared the ideals of punk and hardcore- something positive; music with a lot of energy. So that’s what I got into- but black metal became very elitist and even nationalistic, I just thought ‘fuck this’, and got out of the metal scene. I think a lot of people forget how young most of the original black metal progenitors were, and how easily influenced they might be by this hype. Yeah, they were just kids- most of these guys weren’t even 20 when this stuff was going on. Can you tell me a little about the Jazzassin and Tidal Wave Recycling labels? Did you fund all the releases completely by yourself, or was this a joint effort with you and other people? Well, the tape label obviously didn’t cost much money. It’s still going just for the hell of it- I’ll do maybe one release a year. But with Jazzassin- the record and CD label- I was working at a factory as a printer for almost 2 years, and the money that I earned then, I put into the label. I’m a graphic designer now, but was just a normal printer then- it wasn’t really a nice printing house, more like printing on boxes and things like that with these huge machines. It was very tiring work, with a lot of overtime….but, I was 20 years old and didn’t want to study anymore. I’ve worked in factories and other such environments before- I actually feel like that’s more conducive to making creative plans than, say, working in a record shop, because the opportunities for conversation are limited and you have all day just to daydream… Exactly- because you wouldn’t be able to talk with people there….you’d work for an hour and have 20 minutes off, then work for another hour and have 20 minutes off, so I’d read a lot, and the rest of the time that I was working I’d be thinking of ideas for projects. Anyway, the record label more or less stopped in 2000, but didn’t really die until 2002. I think I did 17 releases in total- but it was never planned as a proper label. Even though I was a graphic designer, I didn’t want to have something which had a specific, assigned aesthetic or look to it. I just wanted to do whatever I felt like, and after 17 releases I felt I’d accomplished that- I figured that then I’d just focus more on my music. ’95 or ’96 were the first record releases for me- vinyl was actually cheaper then, and CDs were more expensive. Now that’s kind of reversed. 10 years ago you could get vinyl for half the price. You did a lot of booking for experimental musicians in Norway, in addition to your own musical activities. What was the response like, in the various Norwegian cities, to the artists you invited over? Well, Trondheim is like 150,000 people- and it’s the 3rd largest city in Norway. Oslo is the biggest at 600,000. There’s definitely a lot more in Oslo in the way of experimental music, but Trondheim was a good place to be in the ‘90s- it was very easy to get a pension and to do stuff in general. Sometimes we’d do bookings there in this punk place- they were quite conservative punks musically; and we’d have Kapotte Muziek there, with chairs set up in this normally dirty punk venue. So the people would come in on Friday night to see whatever punk band was playing, and people were sitting on chairs watching Kapotte Muziek play this extremely quiet, minimal music. It was like somebody had come in and rearranged their furniture. There were a lot of internal conflicts at this place-they were very skeptical of us and our extremely silent or noisy music. They thought that we blew some P.A. stuff (we didn’t)- so, we turned to other places after a while: a theater, and I also booked shows at people’s houses or at some student housing. Wherever we could play, we’d play. Who do you consider to be the ‘grandfather’ of experimental music in Norway? Well, we have one ‘grandfather’, Arne Nordheim, who you might have heard of- he does a lot of different stuff, orchestral pieces and stuff, but he did electronic music in the ‘60s- he went to this studio in Poland to record. Whenever people here think of electronic music or just strange music they think of him; he’s very well known in Norway. So he’s definitely the grandfather, but he wasn’t an influence on me or anyone else I knew when I began making music- so I wouldn’t say he’s that influential. He didn’t release any tapes or anything like that, he was always a well-established composer. So to draw a direct line from this [to me] is a bit hard- it sort of grew out of punk music, I think, in the late ‘70s. A lot of people would get the punk ‘spirit’ but didn’t want to play punk, so they’d start experimenting and doing things more like industrial music, Throbbing Gristle and the like. Was there much of a network in Norway for underground music when you first began playing? Not large, but there was a network- one guy over here and three people there. But not big by any means. Norway is a very scattered country, these 4 million people are mostly divided among the coastline. In many ways it’s very isolated. So there was no specific, collective scene in any way. There were no really big names I can think of now who were ‘influential.’ Yes, in Norway I wouldn’t say it’s easy, but there are possibilities to get funding for what you do, if you want to play that game. You really have to get to know this whole process of writing applications and getting on the inside. There have been a lot of interesting people who should have gotten funding from the state, yet never did, while there were a lot of not-so-interesting people who did get funding. But, I think we’re quite lucky to be in the situation where there’s at least the possibility of it. Because in the U.S. and in Japan, I guess, there’s really nothing. What is the current political climate like in Norway? Is there much censorship from left wing or right wing elements as regards ‘difficult music?’ The government now is left-wing, finally- for the last 8 years it was more of a right-wing government, and last year there was a change. It’s not an ‘extreme left’, but I still think it’s for the better. You know, Norway is a stinking rich country- after we hit oil in the ‘70s, there’s so much money within this little country. They say that the whole country could probably live for 30 years off of the interest from the oil funds. So it feels kind of strange to be living in one of the richest countries in the world. But still it’s not easy, because everything is so heavily taxed. You go out to eat and it’s really expensive- I can’t afford to go out to restaurants. In Tokyo there are at least options to eat inexpensively, but that’s not the case here. So I cook at home every night. Alcohol and cigarettes are also extremely expensive. Norway is quite a strange country- in one way it’s quite comfortable, safe, everything works like the social system and medical care- but on the other hand it’s quite conservative. In one way I don’t like what’s called the ‘Norwegian spirit’, even though I’m very comfortable living here. We’re not part of the European Union, either, as you might know- we voted against it. But still, they say we’re one of the most loyal countries connected to the European Union…we’re more loyal to the EU than nations who are members of it! So, it’s a very typical Norwegian thing- very strange. Is there any kind of a competition or enmity between Norwegians and inhabitants of the other Scandinavian countries? Ah, yes, definitely, but in strange ways- I find people from Sweden and Denmark generally don’t get along well. But Norwegians get along with people from both countries. And there’s also this thing with Finland and Sweden- but I think it’s more of a case of the Finns not liking the Swedes that much. And in Finland they have to learn Swedish in school- they know how to speak it, but don’t want to. Most of my Finnish friends speak English to me. We have more of a humorous relationship with the Swedes and the Danes- they may look at us as harmless idiots, actually. What inspired you initially to create noise, rather than to perform in a different medium? For example, is it the direct physical impact of noise, or something very different? Well I think, at first, it was just a matter of plain availability- I started experimenting with tape recorders, making loops and overdubbing in strange ways. I had a tape recorder, and stereo, and turntables- it was just there. It seemed so immediate, making this sound and making cut-ups, opening up this magic world just by pressing the pause button. There was something to it that really attracted to me. I was very young, so I didn’t think of it in terms of “this is art” or even “this is music”. I was around 14-15, just listening to extreme metal, and didn’t know about the ‘avant garde’ at all- I was watching horror movies and listening to Morbid Angel and stuff like that. So I learned about all these terms and avant-garde ideals quite a bit later, actually. In your opinion, what makes for “good noise” and “bad noise”? (laughs) I have no idea! I think that’s why I’m still putting out records and doing shows, finding out what’s good and bad. I find noise music is so abstract- with a noise record, something that I thought was amazing when I first heard it is not so great the second time. And that’s sort of the attraction to it for me. Recently, the last year or so, I’ve been heading more towards older, dirty, ugly sounding things- going back to working with 4-track recorders again and what I did 10 years ago. I like doing different things, and think my taste in noise music is quite wide- With that in mind, you’ve worked with a good cross-section of people- are there any artists within this genre that you would refuse to work with? To refuse to work with? Nah- I don’t know. I don’t think I’ve worked with that many people- maybe I have. Collaboration isn’t something I deliberately seek out, and I’m not really interested in doing it because I like what they do or because they’re famous. For example, Florian Hecker is an amazing musician, but it wouldn’t necessarily be good if I collaborated with him, you know. He’s probably better on his own or with Yasunao Tone. I work a lot with improvisers, and there’s often this idea that if one person is good, and another performer working with him is good, then if you put them together you have something which is twice as good. I don’t think that’s necessarily true- it might ‘level out’ at some point. I find that the collaborations I enjoy the most are the steady ones- like with Maja Ratkje and with John Hegre in Jazzkammer. Those are my favorite collaborators, definitely. I think I met Maja in 1999-2000 or sometime around then. She was already established as a contemporary composer, writing pieces- and was getting more interested in working with electronics and making noise. Again, Norway’s a very small country, so if you’re both interested in things like this, you’re bound to run into each other at some point or another. We did Music For Shopping, Music For Loving and then Music For Faking as a follow-up- we might do another one this year, possibly we’ll call it Music For Gardening or something like that, since Maja moved to the countryside. It’s very beautiful and green out there, so we might do one that’s a little more nature based. Do you prefer music to be politically motivated, or would you prefer to make music which is just a “pure sensation”? I prefer pure sensation, definitely- I don’t have any exact political agenda, but I do think it’s impossible to say that music as apolitical. Just by it’s very being and existence, just by making it you’re doing something political, it’s hard to avoid. I also prefer to have people think for themselves, not to have them think like me. I noticed that you are very generous with free downloads of your music. Do you have any specific “anti-commercial” motives for doing this? How do you feel about music downloading in general? I have 15 hours of material available for download- quite a lot. And that was just stuff which I had available digitally. I haven’t transferred anything from cassettes. I think it’s fantastic- sharing is good, I think. I wish I had had that when I was interested in this stuff in ’89-’90- I had to tape trade with people, and spent a lot of money on postage. Just having more people interested in music, that’s got to be good, right? Like, I’ll go to Argentina, where people are very poor, but they know all your music- they don’t own anything, but have heard everything through downloading. It’s great. And I’ve never made any money selling records. I could make some money doing shows and things like that, but not selling records. The thing is, this is a problem for the record industry- this is not really a problem of musicians and composers. But they industry has convinced artists / musicians that this is a problem for them. The music industry itself is very young, you know- the music industry as we know it has only been around for 50 years or something like that, while music has been around for thousands of years and is doing just fine. Well, another possibility is that this forces people to make a product more worth buying, or to think twice before just releasing something mediocre. Right- so now the records or CDs that I buy are better ones. I can check them out on MP3 first, and if they’re not good, I’m not buying it! This has forced the industry to come up with a better product, and that’s a good thing. They’ve added value through bonus DVDs, better packaging and things like that. I know you worked closely with Koji Tano in Japan, who was one of the main figures in their noise scene, and consequently throughout the world- do you think anyone will arrive to fill the void in Japan that’s been left by Koji’s death? Well, I’m not sure, because it’s really a sad situation- he was really the most active guy in setting up shows, having a label and a shop and mail order. He was the key guy for people coming from the West into Japan, and really a wonderful person. For him to be gone so soon is really a major loss. I believe what he started will continue- people are still running his magazine and shop, although I haven’t been there since he passed away. There was an online tribute to him, lots of people sent in their MP3s or something, but I didn’t take part in it- I sort of feel he deserves something better than MP3s on a website. He was a record collector; he would have enjoyed a nicely packaged vinyl or CD or something- and I’m sure somebody will do that eventually. We put out a cassette box set of all the Jazzkammer shows in Japan, and we dedicated that release to him.
-for more information on Lasse's current actions, be sure to link here
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